One function of all government is to bring mankind to a personal cross. We all need the cross in our lives in order to be conformed to the image of Christ.

It was in submitting to the civil governments of His day that Christ was brought to His cross. When His disciples would have fought for Him, He testified that He had legions of angels that He could easily call, but He chose not to. Instead, He submitted Himself to the judgment of the Roman and Jewish authorities.

Christ is a pattern for all mankind. We are all brought to a cross through submission to authority. When I submit to the demands of an unreasonable boss, without complaint or argument, I must die to self. When a wife submits to her husband as her head and he leads the family in a direction contrary to her own wishes, then she must die to self. The disciples submitted to be flogged by civil authorities, and did not revile them. Many were martyred, and went meekly to their judgment.

It is always government that leads men to a cross, and this is why so many argue so vehemently against submitting to government. Women have denied that the Scriptures teach that they are to take man as their head. Children argue that they do not have to obey their parents. Employees and servants argue that they do not need to honor their employers and supervisors. And many men argue that they need not honor the civil authorities.

It is not because these matters are not taught clearly in the Bible. Rather, it is because obedience leads to a cross and many men despise the cross. Men do not want to suffer, and would rather fight against the government. Yet how many of the disciples of Christ entered into glory, following the pattern of Christ, by ever fighting against the government?

May you be blessed with peace and understanding in these days.

I do believe we can identify from the context of Romans 13 that Paul was speaking of civil government. Please consider the following. Paul ends this section on authority with the following words:

Romans 13:6-7
For because of this you also pay taxes, for rulers are servants of God, devoting themselves to this very thing. Render to all what is due them: tax to whom tax is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honor to whom honor.

The church does not collect taxes or custom. These are actions performed by the civil governments of men.

The apostle Peter elsewhere speaks of honoring civil authorities.

I Peter 2:17
Honor all men; love the brotherhood, fear God, honor the king.

This is an echo of Paul's words to give honor to whom honor is due. In the Old Testament Yahweh gave a law that said one was not to revile a ruler of the people. This was speaking of both religious and secular rulers. Nor did it matter whether the rulers were righteous or unrighteous.

We find that Paul, in speaking to the High Priest who ordered Paul to be struck contrary to the Law, called him a white washed sepulchre. Paul did not know he was a ruler when he made this statement. When he was informed of the High Priest's identity, Paul confessed that he was wrong in making the statement he had made.

It is ever Yahweh's principle that authority must be honored by those under it, whether that authority is in the home, the church, on the job, or in civil government. This is not to say that it must be obeyed, for our obedience must be to God whenever there is a conflict between the commands of earthly authority and Yahweh's authority.

What we are not permitted to do is to revile an authority. This extends even to the fallen angels, and is spoken of by both Peter and Jude.

Continued…

No you statement is not what is scriptural. A good friend reminded me I was sent an email about the use of the words that you mentioned using Romans(Romiyim) and mans government from my comment.

We hope the spirit of understanding sees fit to help you this we pray.

It is not obvious from the original Greek text what authorities Paul was referring to in Romans 13. He does not specifically state that he is referring to civil government authorities anywhere in these verses.

It is our belief that the authorities or powers that Paul was referring to in Romans 13:1 were the spiritual leaders of the Body of Christ in Rome. Paul was not exhorting the Christians in Rome to submit to the Roman Empire. He was exhorting them to submit to their own government – to the spiritual leaders whom God has placed over the Ecclesia (called-out ones) to guide it by His Spirit.

Why would Paul be directing the Roman Christians to obey the authorities of the Roman Empire, over those of the ecclesia leaders when they had their own leaders to obey? Obviously, he was not.
Doctrine of Confusion

Rick-Carl Family of Cyr

Thank you for your time Brother Bless your efforts.

Thank you for sharing this (and your personal journey). It is both an encouragement and affirmation that the Lord is moving within His people and preparing them for what His future plans.

Tam Z

Thank you for your comment. I read similar things regarding the ways some ministers in the New Orleans area were used in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina.

I do not doubt that many churches will join the Beast system of the government. I have written about these things in a number of articles.

However, it is still disingenuous for people to state that churches made a deal to be instruments of the government in order to get tax free 501c3 status. This was my point in commenting on the previous poster's comments.

I also think it is prudent to have something more substantial than that an anonymous "Pastor Revere" has revealed a secret FEMA plan to use pastor's to corral people into the arms of the Beast system. Such things might occur, but we need to be responsible in reporting such things. There is a tremendous amount of false information floating around the Internet.

We are told in Scriptures to be "wise as serpents and harmless as doves." We should test all such claims to check their veracity. Even the Bible requires two or three witnesses to establish a matter.

May you be blessed with peace and understanding in these days.

A Pastor has come forward to blow the whistle on a nationwide FEMA program which is training Pastors and other religious representatives to become secret police enforcers who teach their congregations to "obey the government" in preparation for a declaration of martial law, property and firearm seizures, and forced relocation.

In March of this year the Pastor, who we shall refer to as Pastor Revere, was invited to attend a meeting of his local FEMA chapter which circulated around preparedness for a potential bio-terrorist attack, any natural disaster or a nationally declared emergency.

The FEMA directors told the Pastors that attended that it was their job to help implement FEMA and Homeland Security directives in anticipation of any of these eventualities. The first directive was for Pastors to preach to their congregations Romans 13, the often taken out of context bible passage that was used by Hitler to hoodwink Christians into supporting him, in order to teach them to "obey the government" when martial law is declared.

You also stated:

"No wherer does scripture say anything about the Government of man – in fact we are commanded to follow Yah's Laws ruling and covenants. To be tax free violates Yahshuas very direct response in scripture about the taxes, "render unto Ceasar that which is Ceasar…Render unto YHWH that which is YHWH's."

Your statement that "nowhere does Scripture say anything about the government of man" is contradicted in your next statement which quotes Christ's words about paying taxes. The apostle Paul is even more explicit in writing about the government of man in Romans 13.

Romans 13:1-7
Let every person be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God. Therefore he who resists authority has opposed the ordinance of God; and they who have opposed will receive condemnation upon themselves. For rulers are not a cause of fear for good behavior, but for evil. Do you want to have no fear of authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same; for it is a minister of God to you for good. But if you do what is evil, be afraid; for it does not bear the sword for nothing; for it is a minister of God, an avenger who brings wrath upon the one who practices evil. Wherefore it is necessary to be in subjection, not only because of wrath, but also for conscience' sake. For because of this you also pay taxes, for rulers are servants of God, devoting themselves to this very thing. Render to all what is due them: tax to whom tax is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honor to whom honor.

Paul actually writes quite a bit about human government, and our need to be in subjection to it. Even when we cannot obey the government due to a conflict with the will of God, we must submit to the chastisement of the government. We see this revealed in the life of Christ and His disciples. They honored the government as far as they were able, and submitted to the judgment of the government when they were not able to obey.

It was due to this honor that so many Christians ended their lives as martyrs, following the pattern of Yahshua.

Included in your statement is the comment that we must "follow Yah's Laws, rulings and covenants." If you are suggesting that we must be subject to the Old Covenant of the Law, then I must object, for the Scriptures teach otherwise.

There is not sufficient space in a comment field to address this subject. I would recommend those interested to read the short book titled "Laying Down the Law."

http://www.heart4god.ws/id293.htm

May you be blessed with peace and understanding in these days.

I posted your comment, but I felt the need to share a few thoughts on what you wrote. You stated:

"You see Churches in America are 501c3 charitable organizations. They made a deal with the GOV and replaced the GOD as some would say(I prefer YHWH) they made a deal not to have to pay the tax if they do the GOV bidding."

I do not know of any churches who entered into an agreement to do the government's bidding when they became 501c3 organizations. I believe that most did it for tax purposes, liability issues, and to keep a church from having its property assigned to an individual. Incorporation seems to meet many of the perceived needs of large organizations that have much property, numerous staff, and a variety of ministries.

I am not defending incorporation. I am only saying that it is not accurate to state that the churches made a deal with the government to do their bidding.

Incorporation is more reflective of the trend for churches to become businesses. Some are very large businesses, such as Joel Osteen's church that meets in a converted stadium in Houston, TX.

A church that is not surrendered to be led of the Spirit in all things will end up conforming itself to the society in which it exists. America is a land of commerce, and the church has become commercialized. Churches today have a board of directors, secretaries, trustees, committees, and they decide matters by voting. These are all patterns drawn from the corporate workplace. There is no presence of any of them in the Scriptures.

Continued…

The message of true discipleship is woefully lacking in the American church!

Rick-Carl Comment:

Brother shacklet I can understand your frustration too. As Joeseph Herrin has said many time church have to really look at themselves. You see Churches in America are 501c3 charitable organizations. They made a deal with the GOV and replaced the GOD as some would say(I prefer YHWH) they made a deal not to have to pay the tax if they do the GOV bidding. No wherer does scripture say anything about the Government of man – in fact we are commanded to follow Yah's Laws ruling and covenants. To be tax free violates Yahshuas very direct response in scripture about the taxes, "render unto Ceasar that which is Ceasar…Render unto YHWH that which is YHWH's. They are not an assembly of YHWH. Buyer beware!!

In the name of Messiah Yahshua – Bless you and your Family.

Rick-carl Family of Cyr, Servant of YHWH

I understood as a child I thought as a child;

but when I became a man I put away childish things."

I Cor. xiii. 11

things like the latest mobile phone a new TV set are all toys the father has also been striping things back in my life and telling me to grow up and put away those toys our father wants us to be mature sons, one day i will be free completely from all those toys and distractions

Thank you for another good and true word.

In my experience, I have heard preachers teach that the Lord may require us to give up what we have, but then nullify that message by assuring the congregation that He will immediately give it right back to them, and more besides.

The message of true discipleship is woefully lacking in the American church!