Joseph Herrin (05-13-2010)
For those waiting to listen to the audio messages from the first series of meetings in North Georgia, I received the audio files this week. I have edited and forwarded them to a brother in Christ who manages the Heart4God website for me (Thank you Ifeanyi!). As soon as he has them posted I will let you know. I do encourage the saints to listen to these messages as they are Yahweh’s words of instruction and encouragement to His people who must embrace a life of surrender to the leading of His Spirit if they are to be numbered among the firstborn and attain to the first resurrection.
You can keep checking the audio page of the Heart4God website to see when they are available. The series will appear under the heading “If You Would Be Perfect.”
I will post their availability as soon as I am made aware of their availability and have time to post again. During days that I am speaking I do not have much time available to get on the computer.
Will There Be a Pre-Tribulation Rapture?
Recently, I received a correspondence concerning the subject of the widely accepted belief that there will be a pre-tribulation rapture of the saints. I thought it would be helpful to many to share this correspondence.
Subject: Information please
I have been receiving messages forwarded to me by a friend… I don’t always have time to read everything, yet do try to scan the messages to receive insight and understanding.
What I’m wondering – I checked your site and didn’t find the answer to this question so that is why I’m asking you via email – do you believe in the Blessed Hope with those IN Christ, sealed with the Holy Spirit, will be removed prior to the wrath of God 7 year tribulation time?
The person sending me your messages states he does not believe in The Catching Away of The Body of Christ and believes all those in The Church, will go through the tribulation…
Thank you for responding.
In Him….abiding in His love and grace….secure in His rest…filled with HIS peace.
Dear (Name Withheld),
Thank you for writing and asking your excellent question. There is a tremendous amount of false doctrine present in this hour, and it is the responsibility of every son and daughter of Christ to “study to show themselves approved unto God, a workman that need not be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.” This specific teaching of a pre-tribulation rapture is one area in which all saints should seek the mind of the Father for themselves. Many have accepted doctrines that appeal to the soul and flesh. Without a doubt, avoiding all trouble and distress is an idea that appeals to the natural man. However, it is not an idea that harmonizes with the lives and teachings of Christ and His apostles.
Please consider the following verse as a starting point for your own exploration of this subject.
“For those days will be a time of tribulation such as has not occurred since the beginning of the creation which God created, until now, and never shall. And unless the Lord had shortened those days, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect whom He chose, He shortened the days.”
Christ is declaring here that the days of tribulation to come will be so severe that it would seem as if all life would perish in the evil of those days. For the sake of God’s elect WHO WILL BE PRESENT DURING THOSE DAYS God has chosen to shorten the days. If He did not, even all the elect of God would perish.
There are MANY scriptures that reveal that it is the will of the Father for His sons and daughters to pass through great tribulation before they enter into glory. Christ is the pattern for all those who would stand as overcomers. He had to suffer before He entered into glory, and so too must all who would share in His glory.
And He said to them, “O foolish men and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken! Was it not necessary for the Christ to suffer these things and to enter into His glory?”
For to you it has been granted for Christ’s sake, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake…
In your e-mail you spoke of the “blessed hope” of a pre-tribulation rapture. The disciples and apostles never spoke of a rapture as the “blessed hope.” It was the resurrection of the dead which is the blessed hope of the believer. Yet many who do not want to entertain any thought of walking through fiery tribulation with Christ have fixed a false hope on a rapture that will not take place.
I encourage you to labor to divide between the voice of your soul and the voice of the Spirit. The soul will always desire to avoid suffering, but such is not the plan of our Father. Many ministers and Bible teachers proclaim that which appeals to the soul, and have consequently amassed large followings, but they are leading multitudes into deception.
I pray that the Spirit of Christ might guide you into all truth.
May you be blessed with peace and understanding in these days,
I do have other writings that relate to the subject in various ways. Many Christians believe the removal from the earth of Believers is the next great event to be anticipated. This is a false expectation. Even as the Jews were looking for the Messiah to appear in a manner that their souls found attractive, so too has the church fallen into a similar error. He will appear in a place, and in a manner, that will offend many Christians, even as His appearing 2,000 years ago offended many Jewish believers.
One writing that focuses upon this subject is titled “The Next Appearance of Christ.”
The apostle Paul prophesied that “in the last days” men in the church would turn aside from truth and embrace myths and fables. He told Timothy that men would not endure sound doctrine, but would heap up to themselves teachers to tell them the things they wanted to hear.
We are living in the hour of the fulfillment of the apostle’s words. I encourage those who read these writings to develop solid habits of Scripture study for themselves. In an hour when deception is sweeping across the church like a flood, it is only those who are anchored who will not be swept away into error.
May you be blessed with peace and understanding in these days.
P.S. There is so much in the news at this hour that I want to write about, but time has not permitted me. The nomination of Elena Kagan as the 112th Supreme Court Justice is a watershed moment in this nation. It will be the first time that there will be no Protestant Christians serving on the nation’s highest court. Ms. Kagan is also a homosexual, and her appointment is in keeping with the direction of the current Presidential administration which has staked out a clear course of promoting abominations, inviting the judgment of Yahweh upon this land.
I am reminded of the Kingdom of Israel under King Ahab.
I Kings 16:29-32
Now Ahab the son of Omri became king over Israel in the thirty-eighth year of Asa king of Judah, and Ahab the son of Omri reigned over Israel in Samaria twenty-two years. And Ahab the son of Omri did evil in the sight of Yahweh more than all who were before him. And it came about, as though it had been a trivial thing for him to walk in the sins of Jeroboam the son of Nebat, that he married Jezebel the daughter of Ethbaal king of the Sidonians, and went to serve Baal and worshiped him. So he erected an altar for Baal in the house of Baal, which he built in Samaria.
The present government acts as if it is a trivial thing that the nation has heaped up judgment against them by the great weight of her sins, murdering her unborn babies, degenerating into rampant immorality where fornication is the norm and chastity is now a great rarity. The nation and her leaders have not repented, but are pursuing a course of ever increasing wickedness.
Tragically, the people of God have not appeared as salt and light to this generation. Christ told His disciples that they would lose their saltiness if they did not count the cost of discipleship and submit the entire rule of their lives to the Father. A church that has given Yahweh only a portion of their lives is not fit even for the manure pile. Such words offend, but they are not my words, they are the words of Christ.
Now great multitudes were going along with Him; and He turned and said to them, “If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple. Whoever does not carry his own cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple. For which one of you, when he wants to build a tower, does not first sit down and calculate the cost, to see if he has enough to complete it? Otherwise, when he has laid a foundation, and is not able to finish, all who observe it begin to ridicule him, saying,’ This man began to build and was not able to finish…’ So therefore, no one of you can be My disciple who does not give up all his own possessions. Therefore, salt is good; but if even salt has become tasteless, with what will it be seasoned? It is useless either for the soil or for the manure pile; it is thrown out. He who has ears to hear, let him hear.”
People of God, can a Christian be considered salty today if he/she has not given the entirety of their life, possessions, and relations to God? Christ stated that they would lack the flavor, and taste, the aroma of His Father.
The judgments coming to America are first for the people of God. In the nomination of Elena Kagan I can truly see the tribulation and chastisement that must soon appear to those who are people of God. A recent article relating to her nomination states the following:
Elena Kagan – Scourge of God’s People?
Wright told LifeNews.com that Kagan was Associate Counsel to President Bill Clinton and Deputy Assistant to him for domestic policy — which, under Clinton, advocated abortion.
Kagan was credited by the ACLU with “shaping Clinton’s policy on hate crimes,” Wright noted.
“The Clinton Administration treated pro-life activists like violent criminals, creating a task force in the Department of Justice and a grand jury to investigate peaceful pro-lifers. This raises serious concerns that she shares the hostile view that religious beliefs are a form of ‘hate,'” she said.
(Those familiar with the symbolic meaning of the numbers 6 and 22 will appreciate the importance of the numbers in the above link. 6 is the number of the flesh man and 22 symbolizes flesh cutting, or the removal of flesh. Yahweh will raise up scourges in this nation whose ultimate impact will be to remove the flesh from His people.)
I have no doubt that in the very near future that a great many “religious beliefs” will be subject to criminal prosecution. This blog post will itself be a chargeable offense in the near future. Yet, persecution is not an evil thing. The church has become degenerate in its ease. Persecution is a great separator and refiner. Those who refuse to bear hardship will fall away, leaving a living and vital core remnant of true believers who will be purged, purified and refined as they walk as aliens and strangers in the midst of a wicked and perverse generation.
What I see occurring in the nation is very much related to the subject of this post. Yahweh will not remove His people from persecution and tribulation. It is intended to refine them as silver and gold, which is put in the fire. Those who are proclaiming an escapist rapture will fail to prepare themselves to stand in days of trouble.
Heart4God Website: http://www.heart4god.ws
Parables Blog: www.parablesblog.blogspot.com
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I think you might be interested in this post concerning 153 and pi –
I will be praying for you while you travel, that you will be filled with the Holy Spirit for the teachings, and safe on the roads!
I was just reading Daniel last night concerning the last days. The horrible reality of the tribulation struck me when I read that Daniel was sick for days after he received the vision.
I can not imagine what we are about to enter into! Then I read Daniel 11:32-35.
He shall seduce with flattery those who violate the covenant, but the people who know their God shall stand firm and take action. And the wise among the people shall make many understand, though for some days they shall stumble by sword and flame, by captivity and plunder. When they stumble, they shall receive a little help. And many shall join themselves to them with flattery, and some of the wise shall stumble, so that they may be refined, purified, and made white, until the time of the end, for it still awaits the appointed time.
How does one prepare for this?
Feel free to pass on to your pre-trib correspondents my invitation to visit me in Budapest, Hungary. I'd be happy to take them to the museums in Eastern Europe that re-create the dungeons and torture chambers that their brothers and sisters weren't raptured out of during the terror of the Nazi and Communist regimes Or I would be happy to meet them in Rome to show them the still visible bloodstains at the Colosseum. There was no rapture from the lion's mouth. On the plane flight here they can leave behind their 'Left Behind' books and read what Corrie Ten Boom wrote about how she met Chinese Christians who had been taught by missionaries that they would be raptured out of any tribulation, therefore they were woefully unprepared when the Communists came to power. (I have this mental picture of being supernaturally transported to visit someone who is being horribly tortured and saying, "Good news, brother! Hal Lindsey says we won't have to go through
the Tribulation." Somehow I don't think such thinking will bring much comfort to our suffering brother). And if the Chinese Christians weren't prepared, I can't imagine how unprepared the American church is for what is soon to come.
In addition to the Scriptures you cite on this issue, 2 Thess. 2 has also been decisive for me. The Thessalonians think they have missed the second coming, but Paul doesn't correct them by saying, "The rapture will precede the second coming by several years, and the rapture hasn't yet happened." What he says instead is to tell them that two things must happen before the Second Coming (the falling away and the revealing of the man of lawlessness) – therefore the rapture can't happen at any moment.
..But God showed me that there is a rapture before the tribulation. Since then, I have met others also who have received visions from the Lord showing the rapture before the tribulation.
I'm looking for the truth, but I can't be convinced by this study of the scriptures, because I have viewed scripture studies for a pre-trib and even mid-trib rapture that are just as convincing.
I have to stick with what God showed me personally about it.
One bible teacher I know that preaches pre-trib, says that every time he mentions the rapture, he gets arguments and questions from every angle out there, but he said that after studying them all, it was easy for him to answer the questions and preach a pre-trib view, once he understood the ancient hebraic view of scripture and culture and customs, etc (eg. the ancient jewish wedding).
Besides that, I have found that many people will search the scriptures about this, but it seems that whenever someone seeks the Lord about the answer and is shown by the Lord, they always get a revelation of a pre-trib event.
So I don't know, that's just what I have found personally. Either way I am prepared, and we know most definitely that the hour is now upon us, God bless.
"Besides that, I have found that many people will search the scriptures about this, but it seems that WHENEVER someone seeks the Lord about the answer and is shown by the Lord, they ALWAYS get a revelation of a pre-trib event."
You are writing to a brother at this moment who has searched the Scriptures and the mind of Christ, and I have NOT gotten a revelation of a pre-trib rapture.
Is it not possible that people see what their soul wants to see in the Scriptures, even as you say that ALL earnest seekers who receive revelation from God are shown that there is a pre-trib rapture? Here is one presenting a word right before your eyes, and yet it is as if you do not see it, otherwise you would not say ALL receive a revelation of a pre-trib rapture from the Lord.
The soul of man has a natural aversion to suffering. If you will examine the doctrine of the vast majority of those teaching a pre-tribulation rapture, you will also find that they are NOT preaching the message of being a suffering disciple. I do not know of a prosperity preacher anywhere who does not preach a pre-trib rapture. This is because these believers have adopted a mindset that it is not the Father's will that they suffer. They believe God wants only to prosper them and make their life one of ease.
The apostle Paul prophesied that this would be the character of the church in the last days, as did Yahshua when He spoke to the last church, the church of Laodicea, in Revelation.
2 Timothy 3:1-2
But realize this, that in the last days difficult times will come. For men will be lovers of self, lovers of money…
Those who love self and love money will naturally develop doctrines that espouse an escape and avoidance of tribulation. The natural man does not want to suffer. Yet Christ was described as "a man of sorrows and well acquainted with grief." He went to the cross, and ALL who would be His disciples must take up THEIR cross and follow Him.
I would ask you to consider whether you are living a fully surrendered life now and are walking the afflicted path that leads to life. If you are not doing so now, what confidence do you have that when a day of tribulation arrives that you would embrace the will of the Father for your life then? Will you not seek escape, even if it means fleeing into the arms of the Beast system which will promise you protection, peace and safety?
There will be a multitude of Pastors in that hour telling believers that embracing a Beast government system is the provision of the Father for them. When tribulation comes these pastors will not repent and confess they were wrong and led millions astray. They will simply become ministers of another deception.
Jewish Wedding & the Rapture
If you believe in this connection, Google "End Times Passover blog of August 2." As you know, many prophecy teachers see connections between the stages of a Hebrew Wedding and the Rapture many are looking for. The above blog has a great in-depth discussion that everyone who is expecting an imminent rapture will enjoy reading! And please tell many others of the same blog. Maranatha!
[above bit seen on the web – Anne]
How does Luke 21:36 play into all of this. I know that the bible says that the saints will suffer tribulation but what is your understanding of this scripture??
"Watch therefore, and pray always that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man.”
Thank you for your excellent question. You asked what is meant by the words in Luke 21:36. To answer this question one must first identify what it is that is being escaped from. Christ reveals the answer in the verses just preceding.
"Be on guard, that your hearts may not be weighted down with dissipation and drunkenness and the worries of life, and that day come on you suddenly LIKE A TRAP; for it will come upon all those who dwell on the face of all the earth.
The day of tribulation of which Christ speaks is likened unto a trap. In what way is it a trap? Those who are unprepared will be engaged in worldly pursuits and sinful behavior. These things will ensnare them. Not having made themselves ready, they will be unprepared to pass through these days as an overcomer in Christ. They will be ensnared by their sins.
What is being communicated is that the day of tribulation which comes suddenly will catch people in whatever condition they are in. The righteous will be found walking in truth and obedience. The carnal will be found walking in error and disobedience. When the day arrives a person's condition will become evident, and the consequences will manifest for each group.
The righteous will be given great grace to pass through these days as overcomers. This does not mean they will overcome in a physical sense, for many will lose their lives. Rather, they will overcome spiritually by not bowing to the Beast system that arises in the world. These will overcome by the blood of the Lamb, by the word of their testimonies, and they will not love their lives unto death.
The carnal Christians will be unprepared. They will not have faith to stand for they have not been developing faith as they yield their lives to God. They will be like the seed that falls on the stony ground. In a time of tribulation they will fall away. These ones will be overcome by evil.
This is what I believe is intended by the words of Christ.
May you be blessed with peace and understanding in these days.
Is this not speaking of being raptured Bro. Joseph?
Rev 3:10 Because you have kept my word about patient endurance, I will keep you from the hour of trial that is coming on the whole world, to try those who dwell on the earth.
This was spoken to only one of the 7 churches of Asia Minor in the book of Revelation. That would disqualify it from being used to support the rapture of "the church" doctrine that is so prevalent today. The rapture doctrine is universal. I have only heard it applied to the entire church. It could very well be argued that the character of most churches today fits the description of the Laodicean Church. Christ gave the Laodiceans no promise of being kept from the hour of testing.
This passage in Revelation is spoken only to the Philadelphia church. It also does not specify how Yahshua will keep the church of Philadelphia safe during the hour of testing to come upon the whole world. Will they be sheltered? Will they be removed? Will they simply be preserved through the testing?
In sincerity, I have to say that I do not see this Scripture verse to be supporting the rapture doctrine.